Almost Having It All with Dr. Corinne Low

Meet Dr. Corinne Low

Giovanna Rossi: I'm speaking with Dr. Corinne Low today. Welcome to the program!

Corinne Low: Hi, thanks for having me!

Giovanna Rossi: I'm so happy to have you. So we're gonna get into a whole lot today, including your new book, which I have right here, which we'll talk about. But first of all, Dr. Low, I just really want you to share with listeners, who are you in the world today?

Corinne Low: So, I am an economist, I'm a professor at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, I'm a mom of two, and I'm the author of Having It All, which we're gonna talk about.

Giovanna Rossi: Okay, and so how old are your kiddos?

Corinne Low: I have an 8-year-old and a 9-month-old.

Giovanna Rossi: Oh my gosh. Okay, I think I knew that, but I think that information didn't settle, because that's amazing that you're doing that.

Giovanna Rossi: We're doing it all.

Giovanna Rossi: And you're having it all, or are you? Right? Like, let's have that conversation today.

Corinne Low: That's what we'll talk about. It's complicated. Yeah.

The Squeeze — When Home and Work Pressures Collide

Giovanna Rossi: Yeah, so tell me, where are you in your career, like, trajectory and how are you incorporating, being a mom and parenting? And also, like what your goals are with your career because in academia, it's no joke, like, you have to keep up with the research and the publishing, in order to progress.

Corinne Low: Well, it's interesting, because when I had my son, who's now eight, I was pre-tenure. I was on the tenure track, and I was actually commuting. I was commuting two and a half hours from New York to Philadelphia, and I was, like, feeling what I call the squeeze when, you know, home pressures and work pressures collide at the same time. And so, at that time, I really was feeling that, the pressure of publish or perish, and that, like, in academia, if you don't get tenure, it's not just, oh, you don't get a promotion, it's that you have to leave. You have to find a new job. You have to find a job in a new city, usually. So, definitely I was feeling that stress.

Corinne Low: And then, when I had my second, I'm at a different place in my career. I have tenure, so I have some job security, and so I think I was going into it kind of smug, because I was like, oh, I've figured out a lot of the things that were hard in my, you know, first… with my first child, my first marriage, and with this commute that wasn't working, and being early career, and now it's gonna be easier. But then I decided to write a book the same year that I had a baby.

And I'm still doing a lot of juggling, so, like, today I'm leaving on a trip, and I'm heartbroken about leaving my, you know, 9-month-old, even though I thought it was gonna get easier as she got older, but I feel like it's harder now, because she understands I'm gone, but doesn't understand that I'm gonna be back soon.

Giovanna Rossi: Hmm.

Corinne Low: And we're trying to logistically figure out, like, did somebody, this just happened, put dirty dishes away, because we accidentally didn't communicate that, like, somebody had already loaded the dishwasher, and so the dishes in the dishwasher weren't clean.
And, you know, just trying to make it all add up. So, in some ways, it does get easier, and then, you know, in other ways, you know, no matter what point in your career you are, it's a challenge to balance it all.

Giovanna Rossi: Yeah, absolutely. And, just to say, I have two kids, and I had a very high-pressure job when I had my first, and I was juggling all the things, right, and all of that, so I absolutely hear you. I also, similar to you, I was working professionally in a similar, area as I was struggling in personally, right? Like, challenging, or balancing all of that, or not balancing it. Juggling it all. And so, I think you're doing that too, right? You're experiencing this personally.
And you're also writing about it, and shedding light on it for a lot of other people who are living it. But your book is not only, and your work is not only for individuals and people like us who are like, how do we do it all? It's also for other people to understand how to, adjust and be flexible and create an environment where people like us can thrive.

Corinne Low: Yeah, I mean, I think it is. It's first, for individuals, I try to use the tools of, you know, my discipline, which is economics, to figure out how we can find the things that are most important to us, and radically prioritize when things aren't adding up. And, you know, I talk about, again, for individuals, like, thinking about your job as a way to turn your time into money, but also understanding that because you are putting time into your job to turn into money, that then you can turn that money back into time again. And that, you know, sometimes as women, we have to, you know, remember to do that, and remember that that's not wasteful or a luxury, that that's, you know, a necessity of investing in our careers.

Corinne Low: But you're right that I think, you know, there's societal things that don't add up that make it harder for women than it needs to be, are making it harder for working parents in general, which is that so many of our careers are built around a, ideal that doesn't exist anymore, which is a man with a stay-at-home wife. And, you know, that's just, the majority of households are two-earner households these days, or are female-headed, so we don't have that luxury of assuming that, like, you can have the worker 110% of the time, because somebody else is going to take care of all the details.

Agency Within a Broken System

Giovanna Rossi: Yes, exactly. And so, I'm really interested, before we dig into some of the actual data and solutions that you're suggesting, just kind of high level, like, do you think that your work takes the current model and tries to make it work for the rest of us, or are you suggesting a new model?

Corinne Low: Well, I think that my book is about giving women agency within a system that is in many ways broken, and saying, well, then I'm not going to ask you to lean in. I'm not gonna ask you to lean into that broken system and just, you know, hold yourself to the standard of your male colleagues, even though you are not coming to the table with, you know, the same benefits that they have.
So, the book is about acknowledging the realities, and like I said, putting women back in the driver's seat of their lives to say, like, no, you actually get to make choices about how to make this work for you, and I'm not gonna judge you or, you know, say that you're failing feminism if you don't decide to try to get the corner office or try to make partner, you know, amid this system that really isn't working.

Corinne Low: That's what the book is. My work, more broadly is absolutely about trying to change that system, right? But I think I didn't want to write the book that said, here's all the policy changes, because that would leave us as women then feeling like, okay, well, then I'm screwed, I'm stuck, right? So, I wanted to write the book that acknowledged the external reality being very, very broken, but then gave women tools to improve their lives subject to those constraints which is, you know, in economics, that's how we think about maximization. You're always maximizing subject to constraints.

And in some ways, those constraints, the boundaries on your life are what help us make choices, because, you know, when you look at some of these, like, billionaires who are just, like, crazy and spending money, like, going into space, right? When you don't have constraints, you can feel really lost and rudderless. And so, you know, seeing the constraints in our life as sort of some parameters that we need to work around, but then really seeing ourselves as having agency and empowerment within those parameters to find our maximum, and find the things that are most important to us, and like I said, throw out the rest. Radically prioritize. I say in the book, throw out your houseplants. Like, if it's stressing you out to water them, and the fact that they're dying, and by the way, mine are behind me, and they absolutely are dying. Look at that sad houseplant. Throw away!

Like, you don't actually have to feel guilty trying to, you know, chase an ideal that that's not working for you in any domain of your life, and obviously that's a metaphor, right? It could be travel soccer that's what you need to throw away. It could be the job that, you know, you invested in, you thought was gonna make you feel successful, and now, you know, it's not paying off the way that you hoped, or it's a labor of love, and you're like, maybe I'd like to get paid in money. Instead of love, right? So the book is about giving yourself permission to cut loose some of those choices that aren't working.

Giovanna Rossi: Okay, I love that so much, because that's so in line with what we talk about here on the Well Woman Show, but it is challenging, because, you know, a lot of our listeners are high achievers, creative, like, making things happen, at all different levels, and juggling caregiving in lots of ways, right? And there's some perfectionism that comes with that, that we're socialized as women to say, you know, we have to do it perfectly, otherwise we're not going to be competitive in the ways that other people are. And so when we say, like, listen, if the houseplant's not working for you, you know, toss it. Or, like, the club soccer, I totally relate to that. I'm a club soccer mom.

But, you know, it's sort of like, how do we create the environment where women feel like saying yes to that. Like, oh yeah, I could do that. Because there's so much resistance, like, oh, I can't give anything up. I can't say no. I have, you know, no boundaries, because, I just have to do everything perfectly, and be everything to everybody, and meet everyone's expectations, and it's a lot of pressure. And so, do you address any of that?

Corinne Low: Absolutely. The book addresses all of that, right? Because that's the issue, is that that's not serving us. So, the model that we can be this, like, super 80s corporate career woman and an Instagrammable trad wife, those are two separate full-time jobs that do not fit in one 24-hour day. And so that is, we are authoring our own unhappiness by chasing this ideal in both domains, right? In the career domain, comparing ourselves to our male colleagues when we literally have fewer hours in our day than they do, right? And then in the home domain, comparing ourselves to the moms of the past who were not intensively parenting the way that we are, because the time that mothers spend with their kids has doubled across a generation, or the moms we see on Instagram, where what they're modeling as aesthetic domesticity actually is their careers, right? And you're every bit as good at your career as they are at cutting the sandwiches out, into shapes so they can make bento box lunches for their kids, right? But because you are trying to do both, you can't do that.

The Utility Function — Your Personal Map of What You Value

Corinne Low: And so, what's revealing about the economic framework in the book, where I talk about maximizing your utility function, and your utility function is what you value in life, what you think is important is that it lets you understand that the reason you don't have what she has on Instagram is because your utility function is different. So it reframes it as a choice to say, actually, you could have more career success. If you wanted to put all of your resources, all of your energy into your career, your career could be more successful.

Corinne Low: If you wanted that well-appointed, beautiful, spotless home, you could do that. You could have that. But there would be trade-offs, right? And they're trade-offs that you're not willing to make, because that's not in your utility function. So, when you're comparing yourself to somebody else, you're comparing yourself with somebody with actually a different set of values than you, not just a different set of resources.
Sometimes different resources, too, but also a different set of values. And then you saying to yourself, and you have to keep having this conversation with yourself, and I do, I literally have to keep having it, right? When I feel that ping of jealousy, of like, oh, someone else has achieved this thing I wish I could achieve, I have to have the conversation myself, say yes.

Corinne Low: If I wanted to put all of my time into that, I probably could achieve something like that thing. But I don't want to do that. That's not where my values are right now. That's not where my heart is right now, right? Right now, I'm feeling torn, because I'm going on a work trip, and you know, I have a baby, right? That's not where my heart is right now. And the same with the beautiful things in the house, or, you know, our kids with the cute outfits, and the, you know, 60-ingredient dinners on a weeknight, right? Again, you could do that, but it would come with a tremendous cost, and so you've made a choice, and that's okay. You've got to own the choice and repeat it back to yourself as a choice to pursue your utility function, rather than as something that you're stuck with, or something that you're failing at.

Giovanna Rossi: Yeah, absolutely. No, I love that. That's a really great perspective and context for that understanding, and for actually using that. So, I'm speaking with Dr. Low, we're talking about having it all, or maybe not having it all, right? Like, isn't that sort of also the point here?
And I think it is hard to say, okay, I do want a career, and I do want a family, but maybe I can't have 100% of both at the same time, or maybe I could have some of you know, what I want over here while I do something over here. So, it's a lot of trade-offs and compromises, right? But I think we need to have, these conversations in community, is what I have found through hundreds of interviews with women leaders who are juggling and trying to have it all, or not trying to have it all.

Giovanna Rossi: And so having these conversations in community is really important so that we don't feel isolated with these decisions.

Having It All-Most — And Not Doing It Alone

Corinne Low: Yeah, I think that's absolutely true, and, you know, what you said about reframing having it all, in the book, I talk about having it all most, and I think that that's the version that, you know, is realistic for us, for these, you know, working moms.
in the 2020s, where, again, we are spending twice as much time with our kids as a generation ago. So it's like, yeah, maybe our parents' house looked nicer, maybe it didn't, but maybe we have this fantasy of the past, and it's like, because they weren't reading us bedtime stories, right? Because we were out biking until the sun went down.

Giovanna Rossi: Yeah.

Corinne Low: So, you know, I think it is saying, and it's a group effort in the sense that you don't want to just feel like you're the only one who's opting out, right? And so it's like, how do you find a community of like-minded people who are going to say no to the club soccer, or are gonna say no to some of these other unrealistic standards that aren't working? And how do you find a community that supports you, and that's one of the big changes in the book that I mention, is for me, moving from Manhattan to Philadelphia, that was what I call, like, a level up, where it actually changed the constraints that I was facing, that when I was trying to maximize my utility, you're hitting these walls, and those are the constraints that you face, and for me, it was that Manhattan was just so expensive that everything felt impossible, and I couldn't really afford the childcare that I actually needed to do my job, living in such an expensive city, and also with my commute, but that was another story.

So, moving to a cheaper city, for me, actually unlocked new possibilities, but one of the most important things about it is that I found a community that supported me. And so, when I've been on book tour, you know, I've had neighbors who were walking my 8-year-old to school. I have people who pick my son up, like, after school today, because I'm going on a work trip, someone's picking him up, and they're doing a playdate, right?

So, we are trying to do it all, and we're trying to do it all alone, and I think the structure of our communities and of, you know, life changing, one thing is, like, our parents helping us. Generations get stretched out, and now mom and dad actually need care at the same time as we have young kids, rather than them, you know, being spry and 20 years older than us and coming over and helping the kids, right?

Corinne Low: So, the structure of our society has changed in a lot of ways that make this harder, and so I think to claw back that having it almost. It's making peace with it being imperfect. But it's also trying to make some structural changes for ourselves by rebuilding that community that supports us, so we don't have to do it all alone.

Giovanna Rossi: Yeah, absolutely, and just knowing, like, being okay with asking for help, right? Asking for support, and that that's not, you know, unusual or looked down upon. But Dr. Low, I want to ask you, so we've been talking about a lot of things that we can do as individuals and that's great. But I think there's a role also for, government and for business community.

What Employers and Leaders Need to Do

Giovanna Rossi: And so, let's take the business community for an example. You're gonna join us at the Family Friendly Awards Luncheon in a month or so, and there's gonna be a lot of employers in the room and business owners, and I'm just curious, what do you say to those folks in terms of what they can be doing to also create an environment where, their employees can thrive.

Corinne Low: Yeah, I think business owners need to be evidence-based, and when you look at the evidence, the data says that women benefit a lot from structure and predictability. And those words are different than a lot of the words that we hear thrown around, because we often hear people talk about flexibility and work from home, and those can be great if you're able to offer them. But if your business is a business where, you know, you feel like, okay, I can't offer work from home, words in person, requires customer service, or requires working as a team.

I don't think that means that you should write women off, because nursing, which is a profession that is fundamentally in office, because you have to, you know, conduct it at the point of care with the person that you're caring for is more than 80% female, it's almost 90% female. And the reason it works for women, even though it's highly inflexible, and it's work in the office is because it's structured and it's predictable. So you know when you're on, and you know when you're off. And you might be on call, but it's a scheduled on-call shift, so you know that you need to arrange backup childcare when you're on call.

Corinne Low: And so, women's choices are telling us that that's what they need in a work environment. Structure and predictability. And so the question is, how do you offer that? How do you offer, you know, a work environment where you say, okay, it's not gonna be, you know, anybody can get called into the office at any time. It's gonna be, we're gonna actually schedule who's on hand to deal with client emergencies, and we're gonna rotate that through our teams.

Or how do you say, look, we want the benefit of in-office work, but really, we only need that just so we can work as a team, and we can do some of that creativity together. So, we're going to have core in-office hours from 10 to 6, but if we need people to work a longer day than that, they're going to be able to choose, you know, where do they put that remaining, 2 to 3 hours of their workday. Sorry, I meant to say 10 to 4, I said 10 to 6, that sounds a little long. So, we’re going to have core in-office hours of 10 to 4, and then that's, you know, not a typical full day, and then maybe you have, an additional hour where, for the younger people, for Gen Z, they just prefer to get it done and then go out for drinks and, you know, happy hour with their friends and be done for the day. And for people with kids, it's…they're done at 4, they want to go pick up their kids, but they're gonna log back on after bedtime at 8, and that's when they're gonna finish, right?

Giovanna Rossi: Yeah, yeah.

Corinne Low: Or if you're in a customer service job where you say, no, I need people here, and I need them here at different hours of the day, it's just putting up the schedule a month in advance so that you're not making people scramble for last-minute childcare, right?

Giovanna Rossi: Yes, yeah.

Corinne Low: It might cost you, in the sense that you're like, okay, then I scheduled, and it turns out I had a little bit of duplication because I had too many people working on a Sunday that turned out not to be busy, or whatever it is, right? But it is going to cost you less than constantly having to recruit new employees. Because it's not working for your employees and their caregiving responsibilities. So, recruiting talent is expensive, retaining talent is expensive. And structure and predictability is a cheaper way to do that.

Giovanna Rossi: Yeah, and it's so counterintuitive for a lot of people. They're like, oh, but that's gonna be so hard. And it can be challenging, but it can be done, and we see that with a lot of the businesses that we recognize with the Family Friendly Business Award, and one of our core policies is predictable scheduling for, like, service industry workers and folks who need to plan childcare and transportation, all of that.
So, we really look forward to seeing you April 30th at the Family Friendly Business Awards. You're going to be our keynote speaker.

Superpowers for Success

Giovanna Rossi: But right now, Dr. Low, we're going into a segment called Superpowers for Success. It's a quick round of questions as we round out the show here, to allow listeners to get to know you a little better and learn from you, so the first question is, what does success in life mean for you?

Corinne Low: Being happy and fulfilled.

Giovanna Rossi: I love that. And figuring what that is for you, and for each of you listening, is the trick, right? It's like, what does that mean? Like, how could I be happy and fulfilled? When did you know you were really good at what you do?

Corinne Low: I think it's funny because everybody who's, I'm 41 now, and there's a certain point where you stop feeling the age that you are, right? Where you feel like, okay, I felt like at some point I was gonna feel like a grown-up, but I still feel like I don't know what I'm doing. But as a professor, I do have this opportunity where, because I advise students, or I advise younger junior faculty.
And then I'm able to see, oh wait, I do have some expertise here, because even when I might feel a little bit lost on my own projects, when I'm talking to a student, I'm like, oh, I know exactly what they should do. So, I have that opportunity by seeing the younger generation to then kind of see how far I've come, and recognize that I am in a very different place in my life, even though sometimes I still feel like, wait a minute, I'm the adult, I'm in charge here?

Giovanna Rossi: Yeah, I love that. Can you describe a personal habit that contributes to your well-being so you can do everything you do in the world?

Corinne Low: Sleeping 8 hours a night. It's a non-negotiable for me.

Giovanna Rossi: Oh, I love that. Okay, give us just a couple tips on how do you make it non-negotiable?

Corinne Low: I find that when we all have things that are non-negotiable, but often they're things for other people, so usually it's like, okay, I'm never gonna let my kid down, or I'm never gonna let my boss down, but we, like, let ourselves down in the process, so I have long since, like, flipped that script, which is that unless it is a true emergency, and once in a while there is a true emergency, right? I literally mean you have to take your kid to the emergency room, or, like, you have a work thing where, like, you know, you're gonna lose a million-dollar contract if you don't fix this thing, or whatever, right? But unless it's a true emergency it is, like, making the choice to say, like, I'd rather let somebody else down than let myself down. So, just literally, like, flipping the way you approach it to say, like the same way you're like, oh, no, I have to get this done because this is due. Like, literally, when you know you have to wake up in 8 hours, when you reach that point of the night, it's, no, I have to go to bed, because I have to wake up in 8 hours, so whatever, wherever this is at, that's done, right?

Giovanna Rossi: Right.

Corinne Low: And I started doing that a long time ago, because in college, I got sick all the time, and I had this narrative that was like, I have a bad immune system, or whatever, right? And then I found out that it's like, no, it's just that I wasn't sleeping enough. It's that you feel like you can pull an all-nighter and then you can drink caffeine, but, like, that's not actually true. Like, your body is gonna, you know, take the toll. So, when I started working in consulting, and, you know, the expectation, you know, I would get emails from my boss at 11pm, and then come in the next morning at 7am, and they would say, oh, did you do that yet? And I was like, the time in between, and so I just started saying, when I started on a new project, hi, I'm Corinne, I sleep 8 hours a night, and I eat 3 meals a day. Everything else is negotiable.

Giovanna Rossi: Oh, I love that! Oh my gosh, okay, that is so good. Alright, couple more questions. What superpower did you discover you had only to realize it was there all the time?

Corinne Low: Oh, that's a good one. I think, I mean, I love being a mom, and so I think one of the things that I discovered is that I made a lot of changes in my life, you can read about them all in the book, it's very gossipy. Where I, you know, I got divorced, I moved to Philadelphia, and I felt really guilty for prioritizing my own happiness. And what I realized is that by putting my own oxygen mask on first, I was such a better mom. And I really saw my relationship with my son blossom. And so that felt like one of those superpower moments where I was like, I'm an amazing mom! And it was within myself all the time. But I needed to put myself in the situation where I could be that person, because when your own needs aren't getting met, you can't be relaxed and happy and fun.

Corinne Low: And so, understanding that, like, actually investing in you being okay is an investment in your kids, because they want you. They want you to be able to laugh and have fun and relax with them more than they want anything else.

Giovanna Rossi: Oh my, it's so true. It's just so true, and with the high-pressure lives that we all live, it's so easy to just go into, like, everything's tense, like, all the time. That make-it-happen mode, right? And so, that reminder of just relax and have fun.

Corinne Low: And you will discover your superpower, that you are an amazing parent!

Giovanna Rossi: Yeah, I love that. Okay, last couple questions. What advice would you give your younger self, say 25-year-old Corinne?

Corinne Low: Well, I probably would have thought about a marriage as a financial decision and a career decision, and not just have thought about it as, like, find somebody who's cute and you have fun with. But, you know, I would not take anything back in my own life, because, you know, everything leads you to where you are.

Giovanna Rossi: Yeah.

Corinne Low: And, you know, me having my son, who's amazing and is a great joy, but I do advise younger people, you know, they say, you know, think about a relationship over the course of your life, think about it as you're hiring a co-CEO of the household for life, because what you need from a partner is going to be different when you're 35 than it is when you're 20, and I think sometimes, you know, we think of the immediate, right? And who makes us laugh?
Who do we share taste in movies or music with? And we don't think about, you know, who is going to actually bring something to the table as a partner in this enterprise of life.

Giovanna Rossi: Yes, oh my gosh, yes. Okay, do you identify as a feminist?

Corinne Low: Oh, yes, absolutely. I do identify as a feminist, and I don't think that that means for me, and this is the controversial thing I'll say, to me, that doesn't mean that men and women are identical, or that their lives would even look identical if we had the policy support that we needed. Because what I see is that, when people have more resources, women tend to choose to put more of those resources into children, on the margins, which means, you know, when you're making a decision, and people have more resources. And so, that resource could be money, that resource could be time, that we usually see that, you know, women who have more money actually spend more time with their kids instead of less, even though often their time is more expensive in the labor market, and yet they're putting more time in with their kids.

Corinne Low: So, in a world where we had the actual support that families need, that would be democratized, in that women who were lower earning would also be able to invest that time in their children, right? But I absolutely am a feminist, because I think that what women bring to society is so essential. I think their skills and talents are so essential, and I think that their work is not a hobby. So even though I'm saying that I think if everybody was supported the way they wanted to be, I think women would put time into children, I also think women's income is essential for American families, for them to pay their bills. And I think we, in the discourse, we've started treating it as something that women do, like, for feminism, you know, because they're so feminist, they want to go to work, instead of understanding that American families depend on their income. So, I have a very, I think, complex, take on it all, which you can read about in the book, but I absolutely am a feminist.

Giovanna Rossi: Yeah, oh, I love that. And as an economist, that gives you the opportunity to bring those feminist values into a mainstream dominant culture field, which is exciting. So, we'll all have to go read the book to find out more. Dr. Low, last question. What are you reading right now? What's on your nightstand?

Corinne Low: Well, since becoming an author, then you make a lot of author friends, and then I just order everybody's book, because I want to support them, which means that I have, like, a stack on my nightstand that is, like, this high of books that I need to read, so it's just, like, too many to count, that are all, like, so exciting, and have had so much care put into that. And that's what's amazing about books, is that, like you know, it costs a lot of money to, like, bring somebody in as a speaker, for example, right? But, like, a nonfiction book is all of somebody's expertise, like, everything they've spent their career on, and they put it in a book just for you! And so, it's kind of amazing, the knowledge that we can access through that, and so I definitely have become a quick, clicker, you know, since becoming an author myself, and so the nightstand pile is high.

Giovanna Rossi: Yes, I will agree with that. I mean, I get a lot of books just because a lot of pitches. People are sending me their book to interview them. But we do add these books to a book list for listeners, so if there's anything you particularly would like to, to note for listeners to read, you can, share that now, or you can share it later, and we'll add it.

Corinne Low: Okay, I'll shout out two that are on my nightstand right now. One is a book called Uncompete by Ruchika Malhotra. And, it's a book about, you know, unlocking success without needing to feel like you're in competition with other women, especially. And I just think it's a beautiful, generous way to look at the world. And the other is by one of my Wharton colleagues, it's called Lucky by Design. And it's a book about kind of everyday economics, so kind of almost like a new freak economics, so how to use economics tools, in your everyday life.

Giovanna Rossi: Oh, I love it. Okay, great. Alright, I've been speaking with Dr. Corinne Low today, economist and author of Having It All, and Dr. Low, thank you so much for being on the show.

Corinne Low: Thank you for having me, Giovanna!